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 Full support Cleric empowerment ?

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Little_Mo
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PostSubject: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:29 pm

Hi Hi *waves*

Question from the noob cleric here What a Face

I played my cleric some yesterday, and I love to take care of a party... I don't like soloing at all, and my build is a full support cleric built, going END/25 SPR

Now, I asked around about skills empowerments, and from what I remember I was told to max Heal CD & power, and same for Bash ._.

But, as I don't plan to solo AT ALL, I feel a little useless to use empowerment points in a fighting skill ._.

I looked around on the OS Forums, but there is no guide about what I call a "true cleric", you have clank guide, DD cleric guide, but no support cleric guide ._.

So, I have maxed CD & power on Heal, but what should I empower next ? study
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:55 pm

I'd save SP too... you can empower rejuv (although that gets lots of aggro)... maybe you can increase duration of regen but not sure about that one... I have not empowered bash and do not plan on it Razz

I wouldn't empower buffs, so focus on the heal skills. Yep.

I never tried or heard much about empowering Regen but since i use it alot I assume it would be handy O.O

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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:41 pm

*ponders*

SP might not be a bad idea ._.

I remember once, when I was healing and "OMG No more SP !" *panicked*

Yes, I panick a lot on my cleric ._.

So you didn't empower bash at all ? So it can be done ._.

I was affraid to be laughed at by saying that I didn't want to empower it XD

I found this :

Quote :
I would say that before level 60 or so, you can probably get by fine without empowered Heal. Basically, if you tend to heal people to full with most of your casts of Heal, you can hold off on empowering it.

Once you pass 60, and Heal stops improving, you will find the empowered Heal to be more and more useful. People will be using t3 scrolls more regularly in parties, and thus will have the HP reserves to make use of the extra healing power. Again, you can get by without it - obviously we all did before the empowerment patch - but it definitely helps.

My recommendation? Start empowering Heal in your mid to late 50s, no matter what type of cleric you are. You will absolutely want Heal fully empowered by level 70 (preferably by mid-60s, really).
If you're purely a support cleric, feel free to empower it even earlier. More healing power is never a bad thing. Yes, it will draw you more aggro, but if aggro is a problem, you can always switch to a lower tier heal for that party.

Rejuvenate empowerment is optional, and this is one you really won't see a lot of benefit from until 70+ (unless you clank). I would always fully empower Heal before empowering Rejuvenate's power. Also, do Rejuvenate's cooldown before doing its power. Rejuvenate already heals for a lot, so it's more important to have it available as much as possible - it's your heal for when Heal is cooling down. When you start getting into parties with tanks who have 5.5k hp or more, though, you'll appreciate being able to drop a 3300 heal on them (3600 once you're capped).

Since this is a battle healing thread, and I built my cleric for this style of play, here are my empowerments at Lv. 74:

Heal - 5 cooldown, 5 SP, 5 power
Rejuvenate - 5 cooldown, 5 power
Bash - 5 cooldown, 5 power
Invincible - 1 duration


I recommend similar empowerments to any battle cleric, as it covers the skills you use most often, both solo and party.

I was thinking something like that :

Heal - 5 cooldown, 5 SP, 5 power
Rejuvenate - 5 cooldown, 5 power
Invincible - 5 duration, 5 CD

I take the 10 points from bash to empower Inv, watcha think ? ._.
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:35 pm

That quote is from the "old times" before the 89 cap raise, where heal stopped raising in levels somewhere at level 50, now it goes up to level 87 and 1800 HP per heal...

But still I'd say that empower Heal CD and power is a must. SP consumption is your choice, it is nice but as always you may end up not having enough skill points in the end if you pick it.
For invinc... CD is a total waste in my opinion. 5 skill points remove 5.4 seconds from the 2 minutes CD... not useful enough to justify wasting 10 levels worth of skill points. Duration is nice, but 1 point already increases the duration from 10 seconds to 13.8 seconds which is huge, I think 5 points (for 17.5 seconds total duration) is useless. And honestly, at high level, invinc rarely even lasts 10 seconds - you use it in emergency situations when someone is about to get badly destroyed, those are not situations where you have 13 seconds to react Smile
Besides, the usual combo after level 67 is quicken => invinc => invinc again if needed. That's already 20 seconds of invinc, probably enough if the fight can still be saved - it is not enough in spider KQ but would you consider empowering only for 1 KQ ? Smile

I think you might want to consider empower quicken CD. With a fully empowered CD on quicken you can cast it every 2 mins 48s, which means you can "double invinc" every 2 mins 48s.

Just a little question : what is the point of the 25 SPR in your build if you're not planning to attack ? I think you'll be better with a full END build. In this case you can be the perfect clank if you save points for awaken CD... this skill is an aggro stealer monster, if you cast it every time you get the chance (9s CD with no empowerement on CD), you're almost guaranteed to get aggro, especially if you follow with Recover and Rejuvenate, even if you have a mocking fighter or a mage casting all his spells in your pt.

So basically I would advise :
Heal : 5 CD, 5 power (5 SP optional)
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD
Awaken : 5 CD
and you have 9 spare points at level 89 or 14 if you don't empower SP consumption for Heal... you can either keep those points for the next cap raise or empower awaken SP consumption because 341 SP each time you cast it = ouch Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:53 pm

Leyrra wrote:

For invinc... CD is a total waste in my opinion. 5 skill points remove 5.4 seconds from the 2 minutes CD... not useful enough to justify wasting 10 levels worth of skill points.


Only 5.4 seconds ? ._.

Yeah, waste >.<

Quote :

Duration is nice, but 1 point already increases the duration from 10 seconds to 13.8 seconds which is huge, I think 5 points (for 17.5 seconds total duration) is useless. And honestly, at high level, invinc rarely even lasts 10 seconds - you use it in emergency situations when someone is about to get badly destroyed, those are not situations where you have 13 seconds to react Smile
Besides, the usual combo after level 67 is quicken => invinc => invinc again if needed. That's already 20 seconds of invinc, probably enough if the fight can still be saved - it is not enough in spider KQ but would you consider empowering only for 1 KQ ? Smile


*ponders*

ooh, I actually wondered what quicken was used for, now I see ._.

Quote :


I think you might want to consider empower quicken CD. With a fully empowered CD on quicken you can cast it every 2 mins 48s, which means you can "double invinc" every 2 mins 48s.


*nods*

Good idea Very Happy

Quote :


Just a little question : what is the point of the 25 SPR in your build if you're not planning to attack ? I think you'll be better with a full END build. In this case you can be the perfect clank if you save points for awaken CD... this skill is an aggro stealer monster, if you cast it every time you get the chance (9s CD with no empowerement on CD), you're almost guaranteed to get aggro, especially if you follow with Recover and Rejuvenate, even if you have a mocking fighter or a mage casting all his spells in your pt.


Basically, you can say that I'm making a clank... Not to clank, per se, but to be able to take damage and not have to worry about me, and continue to heal others...

That's how I died in GH yesterday ._.

I rarely watch my health <.<

The SPR points, well, it's for a bigger SP pool, and better mdef defense... I thought that getting 25 would a nice number of points Very Happy

It's actually not a all for the crits ._.

Right now, I'm somthing like 20 END / 10 SPR

I don't really know how many SPR points make a difference in mdef ._.

Quote :


So basically I would advise :
Heal : 5 CD, 5 power (5 SP optional)
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD
Awaken : 5 CD
and you have 9 spare points at level 89 or 14 if you don't empower SP consumption for Heal... you can either keep those points for the next cap raise or empower awaken SP consumption because 341 SP each time you cast it = ouch Very Happy

So, as I don't plan to clank... mmmm... the CD on awaken is nice as it is...

Is it usefull to empower it for other reason than taking aggro ? Maybe at that level you NEED awaken to keep alive your party, or are the others skills enough ? ._.

So, taking in account your input, I would say something like that :

Heal : 5 CD, 5 power, 5 SP
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD

I have 9 spare points...

Maybe add a point like you said in Inv CD ? ._.

Or 4, that way I'll have 5 points left, good number 5 it is Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:04 pm

I'm giving a try at answering this directly in the text, I'm sorry if this is messy o_O

Little_Mo wrote:
Leyrra wrote:

For invinc... CD is a total waste in my opinion. 5 skill points remove 5.4 seconds from the 2 minutes CD... not useful enough to justify wasting 10 levels worth of skill points.


Only 5.4 seconds ? ._.

Yeah, waste >.<

Quote :

Duration is nice, but 1 point already increases the duration from 10 seconds to 13.8 seconds which is huge, I think 5 points (for 17.5 seconds total duration) is useless. And honestly, at high level, invinc rarely even lasts 10 seconds - you use it in emergency situations when someone is about to get badly destroyed, those are not situations where you have 13 seconds to react Smile
Besides, the usual combo after level 67 is quicken => invinc => invinc again if needed. That's already 20 seconds of invinc, probably enough if the fight can still be saved - it is not enough in spider KQ but would you consider empowering only for 1 KQ ? Smile


*ponders*

ooh, I actually wondered what quicken was used for, now I see ._.


There are many uses to quicken... it's a little tricky at first because you get the skill quite late...
Examples :
quicken => revive => revive when 2 or more people are dead around
quicken => bash => bash to finish someone with low HP in pvp or war
quicken => invinc => invinc has already been mentioned
quicken => recover => recover after a big pull in abyss to get everyone to 100% HP
Just remember you have it and it will do wonders Smile

Little_Mo wrote:


Quote :


I think you might want to consider empower quicken CD. With a fully empowered CD on quicken you can cast it every 2 mins 48s, which means you can "double invinc" every 2 mins 48s.


*nods*

Good idea Very Happy

Quote :


Just a little question : what is the point of the 25 SPR in your build if you're not planning to attack ? I think you'll be better with a full END build. In this case you can be the perfect clank if you save points for awaken CD... this skill is an aggro stealer monster, if you cast it every time you get the chance (9s CD with no empowerement on CD), you're almost guaranteed to get aggro, especially if you follow with Recover and Rejuvenate, even if you have a mocking fighter or a mage casting all his spells in your pt.


Basically, you can say that I'm making a clank... Not to clank, per se, but to be able to take damage and not have to worry about me, and continue to heal others...

That's how I died in GH yesterday ._.

I rarely watch my health <.<

The SPR points, well, it's for a bigger SP pool, and better mdef defense... I thought that getting 25 would a nice number of points Very Happy

It's actually not a all for the crits ._.

Right now, I'm somthing like 20 END / 10 SPR

I don't really know how many SPR points make a difference in mdef ._.

Ok then, put an even number of free stat points in SPR as 2 SPR points = 1 mdef Smile so either go for 24 or 26.
I think popular support builds are full END and 2 END : 1 SPR.
Keep in mind that as far as mdef goes, SPR on equipment is better (1 SPR point on equipement = 1 mdef). For the number of SPs, clerics have a huge number of them and a huge number of SP stones... so maybe don't put too many points in SPR ? Your choice.

Little_Mo wrote:

Quote :


So basically I would advise :
Heal : 5 CD, 5 power (5 SP optional)
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD
Awaken : 5 CD
and you have 9 spare points at level 89 or 14 if you don't empower SP consumption for Heal... you can either keep those points for the next cap raise or empower awaken SP consumption because 341 SP each time you cast it = ouch Very Happy

So, as I don't plan to clank... mmmm... the CD on awaken is nice as it is...

Is it usefull to empower it for other reason than taking aggro ? Maybe at that level you NEED awaken to keep alive your party, or are the others skills enough ? ._.

At any level the difficulty is to know who to heal and when to heal : more often than not, you'll cast heal on a fighter that took little damage only to see the HP of the mages drop to 0 faster than you can say "OMG NOOOOOOOO" while your heal is cooling down (I know I did that a lot in my early Spider KQs).
The big advantage of awaken is that when you cast it, you can basically concentrate on healing yourself (my favourite combo : awaken => recover => rejuv on myself => heal on myself => awaken and then you can sit in your mushie while inferno and nova finish the job Smile)
Of course... this is for level 85+... so you can't say it's useful immediatly... but it's definitely 1 less thing to worry about then Smile

Little_Mo wrote:


So, taking into account your input, I would say something like that :

Heal : 5 CD, 5 power, 5 SP
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD

I have 9 spare points...

Actually with the 89 cap you have 14 spare points if I'm correct Smile

Little_Mo wrote:


Maybe add a point like you said in Inv CD ? ._.

Or 4, that way I'll have 5 points left, good number 5 it is Very Happy

It's your choice.
I almost never use invinc, so I wouldn't do this empowerement, but if you go with quicken Cd, you might as well want to get the maximum from your invinc and cast it often.
I do fine at high level with a non empowered Invinc in emergency situations and I'm not full support Smile
(and I'll add... the more spare points you have, the less skill reset scrolls are needed to redo your build Smile)
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:12 pm

*still taking notes*

T____T so much to learn!!!!! *dies*

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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:31 am

Leyrra wrote:
I'm giving a try at answering this directly in the text, I'm sorry if this is messy o_O

Little_Mo wrote:
Leyrra wrote:

For invinc... CD is a total waste in my opinion. 5 skill points remove 5.4 seconds from the 2 minutes CD... not useful enough to justify wasting 10 levels worth of skill points.


Only 5.4 seconds ? ._.

Yeah, waste >.<

Quote :

Duration is nice, but 1 point already increases the duration from 10 seconds to 13.8 seconds which is huge, I think 5 points (for 17.5 seconds total duration) is useless. And honestly, at high level, invinc rarely even lasts 10 seconds - you use it in emergency situations when someone is about to get badly destroyed, those are not situations where you have 13 seconds to react Smile
Besides, the usual combo after level 67 is quicken => invinc => invinc again if needed. That's already 20 seconds of invinc, probably enough if the fight can still be saved - it is not enough in spider KQ but would you consider empowering only for 1 KQ ? Smile


*ponders*

ooh, I actually wondered what quicken was used for, now I see ._.


There are many uses to quicken... it's a little tricky at first because you get the skill quite late...
Examples :
quicken => revive => revive when 2 or more people are dead around
quicken => bash => bash to finish someone with low HP in pvp or war
quicken => invinc => invinc has already been mentioned
quicken => recover => recover after a big pull in abyss to get everyone to 100% HP
Just remember you have it and it will do wonders Smile


._. I see

Yeah, definitively a good skill ! Very Happy

Quote :


Little_Mo wrote:


Quote :


I think you might want to consider empower quicken CD. With a fully empowered CD on quicken you can cast it every 2 mins 48s, which means you can "double invinc" every 2 mins 48s.


*nods*

Good idea Very Happy

Quote :


Just a little question : what is the point of the 25 SPR in your build if you're not planning to attack ? I think you'll be better with a full END build. In this case you can be the perfect clank if you save points for awaken CD... this skill is an aggro stealer monster, if you cast it every time you get the chance (9s CD with no empowerement on CD), you're almost guaranteed to get aggro, especially if you follow with Recover and Rejuvenate, even if you have a mocking fighter or a mage casting all his spells in your pt.


Basically, you can say that I'm making a clank... Not to clank, per se, but to be able to take damage and not have to worry about me, and continue to heal others...

That's how I died in GH yesterday ._.

I rarely watch my health <.<

The SPR points, well, it's for a bigger SP pool, and better mdef defense... I thought that getting 25 would a nice number of points Very Happy

It's actually not a all for the crits ._.

Right now, I'm somthing like 20 END / 10 SPR

I don't really know how many SPR points make a difference in mdef ._.

Ok then, put an even number of free stat points in SPR as 2 SPR points = 1 mdef Smile so either go for 24 or 26.
I think popular support builds are full END and 2 END : 1 SPR.
Keep in mind that as far as mdef goes, SPR on equipment is better (1 SPR point on equipement = 1 mdef). For the number of SPs, clerics have a huge number of them and a huge number of SP stones... so maybe don't put too many points in SPR ? Your choice.


Oooooooooh ._.

I didn't know that <.<

Then maybe do a 3:1, and lots of SPR in equips ._.

For the SP pool, I was talking about the SP bar, not the SP stones... I usually don't use my SP stone <.<

*whispers* Coz the E key is just under the F# and it makes me move my hand and loose for a brief moment the possiblity of healing... So when I'm not in a duo, I mostly repot ._.

Quote :


Little_Mo wrote:

Quote :


So basically I would advise :
Heal : 5 CD, 5 power (5 SP optional)
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD
Awaken : 5 CD
and you have 9 spare points at level 89 or 14 if you don't empower SP consumption for Heal... you can either keep those points for the next cap raise or empower awaken SP consumption because 341 SP each time you cast it = ouch Very Happy

So, as I don't plan to clank... mmmm... the CD on awaken is nice as it is...

Is it usefull to empower it for other reason than taking aggro ? Maybe at that level you NEED awaken to keep alive your party, or are the others skills enough ? ._.

At any level the difficulty is to know who to heal and when to heal : more often than not, you'll cast heal on a fighter that took little damage only to see the HP of the mages drop to 0 faster than you can say "OMG NOOOOOOOO" while your heal is cooling down (I know I did that a lot in my early Spider KQs).
The big advantage of awaken is that when you cast it, you can basically concentrate on healing yourself (my favourite combo : awaken => recover => rejuv on myself => heal on myself => awaken and then you can sit in your mushie while inferno and nova finish the job Smile)
Of course... this is for level 85+... so you can't say it's useful immediatly... but it's definitely 1 less thing to worry about then Smile


Yeah, I already had that case ._.

3 squishies in my party... But what I do before starting is checking the HP of each, see their scrolls and levels... From there, I watch them a little, and saw who is the crazy mage with no fear, or the one who stays back... And from there I know who will be the potential target of my heals ._.

Or the crazy archer who think they can tank <.<

Quote :


Little_Mo wrote:


So, taking into account your input, I would say something like that :

Heal : 5 CD, 5 power, 5 SP
Rejuvenate : 5 CD, 5 power
Quicken : 5 CD

I have 9 spare points...

Actually with the 89 cap you have 14 spare points if I'm correct Smile

Little_Mo wrote:


Maybe add a point like you said in Inv CD ? ._.

Or 4, that way I'll have 5 points left, good number 5 it is Very Happy

It's your choice.
I almost never use invinc, so I wouldn't do this empowerement, but if you go with quicken Cd, you might as well want to get the maximum from your invinc and cast it often.
I do fine at high level with a non empowered Invinc in emergency situations and I'm not full support Smile
(and I'll add... the more spare points you have, the less skill reset scrolls are needed to redo your build Smile)

I actually use Inv a lot...

When the tank loose aggro, I put it quickly on my most powerful squishie to prevent anything, followed by restore... Sometimes, it's for naught, but sometimes it saves life Very Happy

I looked at the futur skills a cleric might get and I don't any new healing skill ._.

But for now, I think I'll just put one point in the power of inv, and see how it goes... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:30 am

I did

1. Max power/sp on heal
2. Max sp on reju
3. I can't remember how long the duration on my invinc is but don't max it, because at higher levels I doubt invinc would last the entire maxed duration of invinc. It'll probably break while you're in AOE parties/boss fights and the tank holds mobs.


Saved all other points xD
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:47 am

+rep for Leyrra ;-)

For clanking, full END is best. The 12 mdef that +25 spr gives is simply not worth it. The 125 SP it gives is really negligible at higher levels.

I generally find that the best way to keep the squishies alive is to take the all the aggro on myself (unless there's simply too much for me to handle). But having reasonable HP and good def, it is rarely the case. So then you'd want as much hp & def as possible, hence full END. The consideration of the few magic dealing mobs is far outweighed by the many more normal damage dealing mobs.
Also, if you have high SPR in your equips, you'll have decent m.def anyway.

So my suggestion for build: full END.
For empowerment:
What Leyrra said
I would not, however, empower SP on Heal. As clerics, we have enough sp stone capacity to outlast magi thrice over in abyss parties. They will need to restone long before you do.
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:10 am

I will take back my SPR with the lvl 30 reset scrolls then >.<


But as I won't empower Bash, that's 10 skill points not used ._.
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:04 pm

I looked in my stats points and mmmm, I have 11 in SPR *twitches*
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:54 am

Sooooooooo, an update on this...

Bouarg is now 47 (been some time, but still >.>) and is officially Boouh's heal slave.

As in, will only be out on the field as a heal slave on follow to a kiting archer ._.

Or the odd KQ here and there, but then I find them too stressing xD

So, I was thinking, as I duoed with Brett's archer, during a kite you can't restore ><

I hate that coz restore is one of my favorite skill EVER ! Shocked

And I saw in Wiki that you can't empower restore duration Shocked

Bouarg's empowerments :

Heal 5 CD/5 Power
Rejuv 5 CD/5 Power
Inv 1 Duration

I was thinking of empowering Restore's power, but as you can't empower its duration, it seems kinda a waste, watcha think ? ._."
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:33 am

You cannot empower Restore's power... keep your skill points for higher level skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:42 am

Bu-but on wiki they say it's possible Q.Q

Restore
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:46 am

But but no, the second table "Empowerement" includes only SP and cool down empowerements, which means duration and power are not possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:54 am

What does the ratio column means then ? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:57 am

It's explained in the first table :
Ratio (Efficiency): HP Healed / SP Used
so the higher the ratio, the more the spell is efficient in terms of healing compared to the number of SP it costs.
However in most situations, you'll want to use your best healing spells...


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PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:09 pm

<-- just come back from lunch in a bar with coworkers

I'll try to underestand tomorrow Very Happy
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Leyrra
Squishy


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Number of posts : 94
Age : 40
Registration date : 2008-10-31

PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:30 pm

Drunk woman !
That and you're cheating on me...
*demands a divorce*
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ImABabe
Nublet


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Number of posts : 18
Registration date : 2009-03-06

PostSubject: Re: Full support Cleric empowerment ?   Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:36 pm

COME TO ME MOMO!! I'D NEVER DEMAND A DIVORCE!!

Btw.. thread's too long so I didn't read it haha. But these are the things I've spent my empowerment points on (as a full time support cleric. I don't even have enhanced weapons anymore)

Heal: +5 power, +5 CD <--- absolute must
Rejuv: +5power, +5 CD <--- absolute must
Quicken: +5 CD
Awaken: +5 CD
Recover: +5 CD
Invincible: +2 Duration

I would say... to not spend any points into SP anywhere. Clerics have incredible stone capacity and unless you're uber uber poor... those points could be spent elsewhere.

Also, for a full support cleric, full END is better than END/SPR. It's true that SPR adds mdef but in terms of defensive/survivability discussions, END > SPR. END in free stats gives 5 hp per point, block rate, and increased defense. SPR, yes it adds mdef but I believe each point of mdef reduces magic damage by 1 point. In that case, I'd rather have the 5hp than have 1 spr point block 1 damage.

For gears, my order of importance is END > SPR > DEX. Most of my stuff is just single statted END... but only because I was too cheap to pay more for 2/3 statted stuff :p
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